K1 crew assaulted : Message for Mr. Bradley

Author	Comment
londonbwts	K1 crew assaulted : Message for Mr. Bradley	Lead	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 2241 (16/03/08 19:51:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yesterday, a K1 crew was assaulted, the male attendant screaming for urgent police, another crew (J201) ON A GREEN 2 offer up to assist. EOC tell they offering crew "no, carry on with your call". The BWTS are calling for a FULL INQUIRY into WHY EOC refused to allow a crew to assist another crew calling for urgent police assistance while being assaulted. The London Ambulance Service EOC must NEVER be allowed to put the welfare / safety of a member of staff before that of a call, no call we ever receive should ever be given a higher priority than that of it's own staff calling for urgent police while being assaulted. Both the crew were physically assaulted and beaten by a patient's relative. Londonbwts demand: That Peter Bradley, (personally)* to IMMEDIATELY look into this incident and take the appropriate measures and response to ensure that this sort of EOC response does NOT happen again.* *"Do not send me any more Officers I got a full compliment of Officers........send me bloody ambulances"* Anon, Channel 9 7/7/2005. Last Edited By: londonbwts 17/03/08 09:46:03. Edited 3 times.
NHSMonkey	J201	#1	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 209 (16/03/08 20:12:44) Relief Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yeah one half of J201 here - I offered up to go and assist and was told to continue running on the Green2 call. I assumed that EOC had found a motor closer to them. I don't think that was the case. Good skills go to the DSO who heard the initial call and immediately told EOC to send him on that job. (By the by, the Green2 should have been at least an Amber, but that's not the point). I'd like to know what was going through the mind of the EOC controller (or more likely their immediate boss) to leave a crew hanging like that, especially as I heard on the grapevine that it took the police 25 minutes to get there. Hope the two of them are alright. I also agree that this needs to be looked into, and that it needs to be made public the thinking behind the decisions made.
miles high		#2	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 1381 (16/03/08 20:27:09) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Full inquiry.Including how the crew ended up in the situation they did,were there any indications it could go bent and was the usual rush to meet a target implicated in any way?Also I dont know if PB should be looking into it.Id rather see someone who we can trust from outside the organisation doing it. Hope the crew are OK.
Cadburys		#3	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 322 (16/03/08 21:51:46) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The only reason that there will be an enquiry is if it took the crew longer than 8 minutes to get to the job . . . the management really don't care about us. I seriously doubt that even a death would have any one of them suffering from sleepless nights!
wlc1		#4	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 8310 (16/03/08 21:57:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	And some further info. Make sure that EOC followed the correct procedure for requesting urgent police. 2 requests should be made, 1 by the CAD lionk and 1 by phone direct to NSY. The crew/PB/whoever should be also checking the log time stamps to see the time delays between the request for urgent police from the crew and EOC calling NSY. Also, Why sis the second crew get told they couldn't help ? And, and a point that REALLY needs to be rasied - WHERE THE FUCK ARE OUR PERSONAL RADIO'S ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT POST 7/7 THEY WERE A PRORITY. Then again, the managers sitting in the office need them don't they. Personally I think it's disgraceful and PB needs to get on top of this. There is no excuse. None at all. Best wishes to the crew and I hope the firm, police and CPS pushes for prosecution. Send the fucker down for 10. Girls are like pianos. When they're not upright, they're grand
Cadburys		#5	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 322 (16/03/08 22:00:47) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The only thing Bradley is getting on top off is Eric . . .
bazzapurple	re	#6	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 829 (16/03/08 22:24:09) Working With Half Price Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	First off, all the best to the crew, hope you're ok So, is this going to be investigated???
Skid k1		#7	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 250 (17/03/08 06:39:15) Third Manning Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Neither are coming back to work. The girl's husband was assaulted a few years ago (that was featured on the TV). Peter Bradley should look into this and not appoint one of his useless minions as they are sure to either bodge it up, try to cover something up or just plain ineptly look after it. I think the question should be about the crew beng told to continue and not allowed to assist and why did the old bill take so long to get there. If this incident is not dealt with at once I suggest a total go slow in this orcon run in. That will soon get results. pump the brakes 'arry, pump the bloody brakes !
gixertrix		#8	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 4729 (17/03/08 09:20:10) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	In the old South East on Chan 3 any crew requiring urgent assistance would get rapid old bill and the vectoring of trucks/fru by the OP/CMB/SAO to scene. Yes it was a bit like the wild west, yes it may have been over kill when the likes of Trigger got out the car and started haymaking but you knew if you called it that help was on the way. now adays though an urgent assist get's you a tepid response. Hope the crew are ok, hope that this is looked at and not swept under the carpet as so many items are. The only verdict is vengeance, a vendetta, held as a votive not in vain.
Chaos		#9	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 433 (17/03/08 09:56:25) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	One question - where the f**k are the union(s) in all this?? I had to call 'urgent assistance' last year (although, to be fair, we managed to lock ourselves in the motor) and the plod turned up 40 minutes later! If it was one of theirs, they'd be all over it like a rash - and expect us to be there for them too!! But getting back to this job - I hope the crew are OK, I hope someone , somewhere demands a FULL PUBLIC ENQUIRY (or at least independant enquiry) as to why the crew was assaulted in the first place, why backup was denied and why the police took so long - and I hope some good comes out of the outcome!! These assaults - especially for those that work in city centres, are going to become more and more frequent when 'Call Connect' kicks in - because they reckon it takes about 90 seconds currently to activate a truck - whereas on 'Call Connect' they can be activated immediately. If you're just around the corner, you're going to be arriving at a job LONG before anyone has got round to finding out what it is you'll be walking in to ............ firearms, knives, other assaults, mass brawls - you simply won't know, yet for some unknown reason, this 'Call Connect' bollox has been approved by the HSE and Unions?? Explain to me how sending your staff into a completely unknown situation is giving due regard to their Health and Safety??
Union Bod		#10	[-]
Lazy CTA Git Posts: 136 (17/03/08 10:10:37) station tea bod Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I hope PB looks into this, knowing the way the LAS work, he wont. He will be on leave, at meetings or at his other job with the DoH. Eric will not get involved unless asked to. I will be honest enough to say that if this EOC person took this line against J201 attending for whatever reason then their head should roll. And I wish the crew a speedy recovery and hope the LAS back them 110% Men Wanted: For hazardous journey. Small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in case of success.
TheSouthEastKiller		#11	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 1063 (17/03/08 10:48:06) Attendent Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hope the crew recover from this incident. As Gix said, I can recall running on calls to assist crews being assaulted. Turning up on scene and seeing 3 or 4 other trucks heading that way too! Do we honestly think that anything will happen about this? Do we honestly think that anything will happen to the person who assaulted the crew? The LAS (insert any service name) are more worried about times and targets than crew safety. They have shown it time after time, and this incident is another example of how the service has become full of managers who are so detached from its workforce.
littleBARON		#12	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 2548 (17/03/08 13:50:15) Attendent Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hope the crew involved are okay and not too shaken up by it.
wlc1		#13	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 8310 (17/03/08 14:50:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Chaos - as someone who spent 10 years in EOC I can honestly say I have never known anyone from control who would knowingly send a crew into a fight, shooting etc. No one is saying we, as crews, have to go strolling into the house...... I think whilst I don't agree with call connect, there should be an element of self preservation and maturity here. If you don't know or your not sure then Don't go in!!! It really isn't difficult and I can see no argument against this. Whilst EOC don't advocate crews entering a house/flat/pub etc armed with none or little infomation, they also must understand that it is very very different when your actually "on the ground", face to face with the 20 stone monster of a man who has slabs of ham for forearms. And one more point, which does I'm afraid fuck me off something cronic. Urgent police requests. I am not for one minute questioning this crews decision to call for urgent police. Sounds like they needed them there in seconds ( and any other LAS trucks/cars/bikes/DSO's/T/L's) - and I agree the LAS should send as many resources as possible to urgent requests. But, I have been asked for urgent police when in EOC and I have worked with people who have caled urgent police for the most pathetic of reasons. Examples - crew on scene with male assaulted. " red base can we have urgent police - this male has been assaulted and the assailant has taken his car keys!!" NOT URGENT POLICE YOU COCKS "red base - urgent police this male is shouting at us - we have come out to the ambulance but he is still screaming at us ( manle shouting in background) FUCKING DRIVE AWAY THAT IS NOT URGENT POLICE. I was in a truck with a crewmate - got sent to a domestic - no police to send message appeared on MDT. My crewmate for the day decided he couldn't wait for the police so called up " Urgent police this male is on scene and fight in progress in the house" Quite how he knew that when the flat was 9 floors up and we hadn't even got out the truck yet was beyond me. YET AGAIN NOT URGENT POLICE. I firmly believe the number of crew requests for urgent police has gone up as a result of the sheer amount of time we have to wait for any police attendance. There is no reason to do this. The police see us like the boy who cried wolf. We don't know that the reason for the police didn't turn up for the crew recently is cos they were already on another so called urgent request from another LAS amb or FRU. My advice - please think very carefully about calling for the plod urgently. It can affect all of us. Oh and put the shoe on the other foot - have you ever had a request from the police to a call with message " LAS REQ ON HURRY UP - how many of you would realy get your toe down like we expect the police to for us ? I feel for the crew involved and I sincerley hope they get all the support in the world and they recover and come back to the job they obviously love. Girls are like pianos. When they're not upright, they're grand Last Edited By: wlc1 17/03/08 14:52:55. Edited 1 times.
Chaos		#14	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 433 (17/03/08 16:26:19) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If you don't know or your not sure then Don't go in!!! It really isn't difficult and I can see no argument against this LOL - read again - with call connect, you'll be on scene long before even the most basic of info has been given if you're just around the corner. And for your info, I know people in our version of EOC who are either too stupid, or couldn't really give a toss about what they send crews to - as long as they hit their little targets, then that's ALL they care about! If/when you decide to 'wait' and things go bent and a punter dies, who'll get the sack then?? My point is simple - we are expected to jump for call connect in order to reach stupid targets. By allowing us to potentially be on scene before knowing what we're going to (and I've seen no instructions saying we should wait in the trucks until we know FOR SURE what the job is), then we are being put (potentially) at risk by the services we work for..............
Bobby Charltons Comb Over		#15	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 262 (17/03/08 17:32:14) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well said wlc1, I agree with you on that one. "I said Ping Pong Balls, not King Kongs Balls!!"
fuming fred		#16	[-]
Relief Posts: 15 (17/03/08 17:52:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Surely the point is this: where were the old bill? Why did they take over 25 minutes to get there? This is bigger question. I am sure EOC thought that they already had other resources running to the call by the crew (like duty officers and frus), so why would they send another resource ? Here is an idea why not have a "rapid assist " team that are on sector for such urgent police type assist calls, either going to assist an assault or if it's a tagged address instead of a crew waiting round the corner for the old bill, get the "rapid assist" people round there to assist the crew in going into a tagged address. You could train the people in the art of restraint and CS gas etc in case of an actual assault, but generally 6 ambulancemen (no uni bods, skinny birds, big blokes only) will tend to diffuse any nutcase wanting a fight. If the LAS can set up this HART thing then why not a "rapid assist " team to assist crews on the road. We can't wait for the old bill to turn up, at least a "rapid assist " team will be on sector. Peter Bradley listen to this and think about it. I have offered a relatively simple solution, the old bill dont turn out en force and within 30 secs like they used to, what will it take to get some sort of help instead of the police?? A death of a London Ambulance Service member of staff, who was killed by a patient while then police took 40 minutes to turn up and yet set up a "rapid assist " team to at least get someone to a urgent assist call. I know it's not our job to restrain patients, well someone else come up with a solution then. Last Edited By: fuming fred 17/03/08 17:54:56. Edited 1 times.
littleBARON		#17	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 2548 (17/03/08 18:38:31) Attendent Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	fuming fred wrote: You could train the people in the art of restraint and CS gas etc in case of an actual assault, but generally 6 ambulancemen (no uni bods, skinny birds, big blokes only) will tend to diffuse any nutcase wanting a fight. If the LAS can set up this HART thing then why not a "rapid assist " team to assist crews on the road. CS Spray is classed as a Section 5 Firearm. Handing it out willy nilly to a bunch of poorly trained ambulance "big blokes" is hardly a fix all solution. It all boils down to people over using the "Urgent Police Assistance" call when faced with a situation that they can easily walk away from, such as someone shouting or swearing. This is the reason why the Met don't turn out on the hurry up in certain busy parts of London for LAS assistance calls. Likewise we don't rush to their "STABBED/SHOT/CHEST PAIN UNKNOWN" jobs that come down the MDT. At the end of the day it is not the LAS's job to provide bouncers to follow crews around or turn out to potentially violent situations. These are generally the times when nothing ever happens! It's normally when you least expect it, like the 60 year old Doris having a hypo whose son kicks off for no apparent reason. Yes, the Met should have turned out quicker and yes, questions DO need to be asked - we all want answers. End of the day, we need better protection and action when things DO go wrong and crews get assaulted. I mean positive action and prosecutions for those responsible. Too many people assault ambulance people across the UK and get away without so much as a slapped wrist, because a frankly ill informed policeman thinks it won't go anywhere because they were "mental". If you are not happy with lack of action from the plod that deal with you after an incident where you are unlucky enough to have been assaulted then ask to have their sergeant or inspector to attend the scene/station.
wlc1		#18	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 8310 (17/03/08 18:42:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Chaos - your missing the point. If the call is incomplete and your not happy even when it is - DON'T GO IN. What part of that do you not understand ? Why is that difficult to do ? Don't commit yourself without knowing what your commiting yourself too. You wouldn't walk into a fight in a pub when your off duty so why do it when your working!! And Fuming fred - I do not want to be associated with a service who has "big blokes" flying round doing the police's job for them. Your living in a dream world mate. So big blokes are less likely to be assaulted are they ? And giving them gas !!! LOL. Are you sure your not Snap returned. Would 6 blokes diffuse a situation ? If I was mad enough to want a ruck with an ambo bod then 6 of them would just make it 6 times as fun. I have already said why the plod don't turn up on mass - they are too stretched doing exactly what we are doing. Shit calls. This comes full circle back to the abuse of the ambulances services up and down the country. What we need to do is scrap the cad link. Then get the police to use their common sense and call 999 like everyone else. We can then ask RELEVANT AND PERTINANT QUESTIONS instead of the shitty AMPDS we use. This age old problem will never be solved. The firm are too scared of litigation and call connect will put pay to any sensible question taking at call taking level. I also am a firm believer of training the call takers more highly. And ( I'm on a roll now). Why does the LAS seem to think that having 7 channels for the whole of london with 1 RT op on each is enough. Why can't the number of channels stay the same bt have 2 or even 3 RT ops. That would cut down the length of time it takes to be answered. I've waited 10 + minutes and 5 or 6 is not uncommon. The LAS, as are other services in the UK, are experiencing massive change. We have always be assessed on repsonse times. Why can't we change the way we take calls and deal with our own crews. This will fundamentally chage the way EOC work - but lets be honest... it needs to change. It doesn't work like it used to. When I started in EOC we took 1500 calls a day. That was steaming. Now we do 4500+ to 6500. And apart from the numbers of staff and software used nothing has changed. NO change in radio procedure, training school are still teaching the same old bollocks that is not relevant to the job, staff are still acting up 2 or 3 years too early, inexperienced staff on the wireless who have to ask an adult everytime we ask a question. Give the RT op some respondsibility and let them run the channel not the allocater. Being on the radio is all about acting on what you hear and the way your hear it. A tone in a voice can speak volumes, why does that get lost in translation like chinese wispers when the transmission is ran past an allocater all the time. Mr Bradley - you know who I am on this forum.... please let me know when you are free for and I shall pop uo for a coffee and a chat if you so wish. I will tell you honestly and bluntly where I think the service is going wrong. Equally, I have been the subject of some frankly bloody fantastic treatment from some of your management so it won't all be doom and gloom. Maybe a DSO, AOM or manager could reply to this thread. I'm sure we wojuld all be interested to hear your views. Girls are like pianos. When they're not upright, they're grand
UKPatriotx		#19	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 2300 (17/03/08 19:33:12) Guvnor Lick Arse Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Firstly, as has been said on this post already ... if your not sure of your own safety then don't approach, each and everyone of us has had drummed into us from day 1 in training school "THE FIRST STEP IN ANY POLICY/PROTOCOL/GUIDELINE IS CREW SAFETY" i'm not sure why thats even an issue for some people posting here, you wouldn't go steaming in to someone who's been shot without armed plod would you? Secondly, as wlc1 said very well, too many people scream for urgent police assistance when actually all they need is plod on a pushbike to turn up whenever, i accept that none of us should have to tolerate verbal/physical abuse, but if someone tells you to fuck off then do so, record it as "patient (sic) verbally abusive and told us to fuck off, so we did" again i don't see the problem. Thirdly, talk to your local management teams if your not happy with the actions of the police. The management team on my complex will always push for anyone who assaults a member of staff to be prosecuted, even to the point of contacting the local nick and insisting. Finally, my best wishes to the crew who were involved in this incident, i wish them both well and a speedy recovery. Freedom isn't Free http://www.ezee-life.co.uk/cartoons/runrabit.gif
wiggy		#20	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 6136 (17/03/08 19:54:15) station bog brush Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think Fred's point is that Da Firm have to do something now, plod appear when they feel like it. It's not a bad idea as ideas off the cuff go. The HART team ponce around all day doing bugger all, let them act as some sort of local response to police assist calls. ANY response is better than waiting for the old bill to turn up. CAC not allowing J201 is shameful, ok so some of the staff we have now are 21 years old skinny bird uni bods, again any response is better than waiting for the old bill. I remember the days of urgent police meant urgent police and everyone called up for it punter on the back or not. When I ask for police assist I always tell the radio op "its NOT urgent police but ask if they have someone local". The crew involved had no idea that the assault was going to happen, so as for entering a dangerous area dont hold water here. Again as in Simon Spence's case, this job will change when the first ambulance person gets killed by a punter. And I am fucked if it's going to be me! ********************************************** Teaching boys to bake cakes? That's no way to maintain an industrial empire

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