What have the Unions ever done for you??

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Chaos	What have the Unions ever done for you??	Lead	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 433 (10/10/07 09:18:13) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	OK - this is actually a serious question. I don't want to hear any 'ASU Vs GMB Vs Unison' shit - as I think we are ALL sick of hearing it - so if that's the best you've got, go tell it to someone who gives a fuck. What I want is for anyone to tell me something the union (any union) has actually done (that's more significant than providing a microwave) for ambulance staff in particular over recent years?? I'm not interested in 'overall' stuff, what the porters and cleaners have got, what the nurses get, etc - I want to know what they've done for people like myself, as I'm truly stuggling to find any good reason to keep paying subs as all I seem to get is what is effectively a VERY expensive diary .........
PTSDDDD	Re: What have the Unions ever done for you??	#1	[-]
Off Sick With An LA52 Posts: 195 (10/10/07 11:01:47) Off Sick With An LA52 Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Quite a lot, they have helped me through current problems, provided me with legal advice. Even though I have been first to call them because in the past we have had some rather dubious leaders? Then again thats not the Union it's the current leaders that have done all the work. PTSDDDD
miles high	Re: What have the Unions ever done for you??	#2	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 1381 (10/10/07 17:03:45) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Heres a good example.In London the union negotiated a shit rota for new reliefs,but put an 18 month time limit on it.Over 300 staff ended up on that rota and the management wanted to rat on the deal and keep them there.The unions stood up to management and those staff will now be able to get a better working life on the old relief rota as they reach the 18 month hurdle. Its not really about the individual "what has the union ever done for me" thing its about what the unions do collectively for all the staff and it is a fact of modern life that people have a lot of trouble understanding that concept.Thatcher's generation perhaps?
Chaos	Re: What have the Unions ever done for you??	#3	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 433 (11/10/07 07:07:04) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Miles High - I agree totally - it's not about 'me' - rather about 'us'. Perhaps I should have worded it better....... You mention the rota change after 18 months - last I read on here the management had gone back on it?? Have the union now GUARANTEED the change as agreed?? If they've sorted it, then that's a plus point - but I'm still thinking they (unions) are collectively playing catchup with all the shit they've let pass through, and I don't see ANYTHING positive that they've done for 'bottom of band 4' technicians!!
PTSDDDD	Re: What have the Unions ever done for you??	#4	[-]
Off Sick With An LA52 Posts: 195 (11/10/07 09:02:44) Off Sick With An LA52 Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Chaos no offence m8, however I thought much the same way and I even suggested that the union was in bed with management over A4C. If you ever read any of my stuff on the Unison forums you will know what I mean. We have been shafted on A4C especially in our area, this is certainly not as a result of union inaction they have worked there socks off to get us a result. Your beef should be with the management that put you there in the first place, and with the alleged unbaised mediators not with the unions that have tried and are still trying to help us. I know its frustrating and we dont appear to being told much but rather than showing your hand to management. Its sometimes a better tactic to keep everyone in the dark. PTSDDDD
Chaos	Re: What have the Unions ever done for you??	#5	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 433 (11/10/07 10:39:04) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Sorry mate - don't agree AT ALL!! Unison was/is the LEAD union in A4C (as they keep telling us) - yet the entire structure of it is flawed from the ground up. You have people of similar skills around the country getting different wages, different meal breaks, etc - for such a FUNDEMENTAL part of A4C to be so wrong makes a mockery of anything else. To add insult to injury, despite them supposedly AGREEING to all this A4C stuff on our behalf, no-one (union rep wise) I ever spoke to knew much about it...... So how could they have any useful input on something they clearly had no understanding of?? And the recent 'ballot' - how many people do you know who voted to accept the crappy pay deal?? None?? Me neither - yet 'Unison members' voted to accept it by a 2 to 1 majority?? WHERE THE FUCK ARE THESE PEOPLE THAT AGREED, BECAUSE I HAVEN'T COME ACROSS THEM. What's the point in having a union to represent ambulance staff, when it quite clearly doesn't?? I'm sorry if this sounds like a Unison bashing job, but they're supposed to be the big players in NWAS, so they keep saying, but I've seen NOTHING AT ALL that has been worth a penny of the subs I've paid - in fact, it comes to something when my 'pay rise' for the next twelve months, courtesy of my wonderful union, is a fraction of what it costs me to be in said union (or any union, come to that) Joke - with a capital J!!
PTSDDDD	Re: What have the Unions ever done for you??	#6	[-]
Off Sick With An LA52 Posts: 195 (11/10/07 12:46:44) Off Sick With An LA52 Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yep iv'e not met any who voted to accept either, or they are telling porkies. I can't see either why they havn't gone for the equal opportunities line and blown them out the water. Then what do I know, it clearly is a major setback for what was suposed to be a nation wide agreement. How come our A4C is diffrent than nurses for instance, they get a national rate why don't we. Perhaps some union bod could answer that for me, over to you Yellowman PTSDDDD
miles high	Re: What have the Unions ever done for you??	#7	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 1381 (11/10/07 18:55:22) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Its worth remembering a couple of basic truths. Yes the unions are pretty shit in many respects,but we all live and work in times where the law has been configured to work strongly against employees and in favour of employers.Unions are heavily restricted in what they can do,and therefore tend to be seen as failures more often than not.When negotiations take place we often end up with the least worst outcome rather than what we would call a result. But to look at it another way,what if there were no unions and employment was just an individual free for all where employees had no collective clout at all.I guarantee we would all be on a lot less money,working far worse as and when shifts,and in considerably more dangerous surroundings.Anyone who raised objections would be sacked,and there would be legal minimum annual leave,and probably no pension. So it could be worse eh?
Judge Dread	Unions done for you?	#8	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 325 (12/10/07 10:29:24) Relief Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Sick pay, Annual Leave, Health and Safety at work, Less likely to be injured and if you do get injured you will get better Compensation. in a Union you earn more! around 8% in Unionised Workplaces. Most Ambo Staff got more Money under A4C all negotiated by the Unions All terms and Conditions negotiated by Trade Unions. Equal Pay More Holiday Maternity leave and Paternity leave. Your less likey to be discrimated against! The vehicles you Drive, equipment you use the Uniform you wear were all negotiated with The Trade Unions which Still meet and are trying to improve. Trade Union members are only half as likely to be sacked as Non members! Apart from the above "what have the Romans done for us" Court in session. What do you mean 'Oy oy oy'? Must have court in session. Order. My name is Judge Dread, and I will not tolerate any disobedience in my courtroom. Rude boy, you have been brought in front of me and charged with smashing this woman's window. Before I sentence you, what have you got to say in your defense?
crap shifter	Re: Unions done for you?	#9	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 703 (12/10/07 19:06:42) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Chaos, you started this thread with *Quote:* OK - this is actually a serious question. I don't want to hear any 'ASU Vs GMB Vs Unison' shit - as I think we are ALL sick of hearing it - You then launch into an anti-unison tirade, I am surprised it hasn't escalated into what you claimed you didn't want!! Anyway, to put it another way, ask management if they would like you to be a member of a union or not. That might help you understand a little better when they agree with you that you should leave the union. They would like nothing better than to see everybody leave all the unions. You don't see everything they do and it would take a lot more than this thread to understand it. Just because I shift crap all day doesn't mean I have to listen to it as well.
Chaos	Re: Unions done for you?	#10	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 433 (14/10/07 16:05:11) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Crap Shifter - I'm only having a pop at Unison because I'm a member of said union and feel let down by them in terms of A4C and various other bits. I get just as annoyed when the reps of ANY union seem to spend more time slagging each other off on forums like this than they do sorting shit out!! JD : *Quote:* Most Ambo Staff got more Money under A4C all negotiated by the Unions - More money?? What - until they take away the USH and meal break payments that have all of a sudden been termed as 'interim' payments, despite being sold to mugs like us as cast in stone payments?? Without USH and our *Quote:* All terms and Conditions negotiated by Trade Unions. Those will be the T&Cs that don't stack up country wide will they?? Or the ones they've written for the 'drivers' even though they're only supposed to be on a trial thing?? *Quote:* Equal Pay For who?? Techs?? Paras?? The reality is some are paid THOUSANDS of pounds a year less for doing the same job with more or less the same experience (give or take a few weeks/months) *Quote:* Your less likey to be discrimated against! By who?? *Quote:* The vehicles you Drive, equipment you use the Uniform you wear were all negotiated with The Trade Unions which Still meet and are trying to improve. The HSE govern stuff like that - irrespective of ANY union involvement. Any individual can bring a matter of H&S to the HSE's attention and they will investigate it..... *Quote:* Trade Union members are only half as likely to be sacked as Non members! You reckon???
PTSDDDD	Re: Unions done for you?	#11	[-]
Off Sick With An LA52 Posts: 195 (15/10/07 09:14:47) Off Sick With An LA52 Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	You reckon??? No it just takes a little longer, 8 mnths and still here lol PTSDDDDD
Unregistered(d)	Re: Unions done for you?	#12	[-]
Posts: 0 (16/10/07 22:47:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Oh Snap your my fucking hero. Jog on twat.
Return of the Jedi	Re: Unions done for you?	#13	[-]
Posts: 321 (02/11/07 23:50:45) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hey CHAOS, It's perhaps about tomorrow. The public are increasingly demanding, fickle and devious. Quick example...I was picking up an OD when I watched a car flatten a kid 15 yards in front of me, left my attendant with patient and crawled under car to assist kid, as it turns out the worse problem for him was his arse was being toasted by exhaust pipe, that was 10 years ago, i was speaking with colleagues today who took that case to hospital, they were telling me that they were at court recently for an insurance claim on behalf of parents who were claiming kid was ko'd etc etc etc, I think I would rather be in the tent pissing out rather than other way about!
miles high	Re: Unions done for you?	#14	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 1381 (29/11/07 16:39:15) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Or look at the diabetes thread on here.Without a union those people would have been out and left to fend for themselves.And that could be you at any time.
littletommyt	Re: Unions done for you?	#15	[-]
Relief Posts: 14 (04/12/07 15:03:50) Relief Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Chaos. I have to say I completely agree with all your post I am very impressed you still have enough energy to talk about what to me and many has now become the energy sapping afc unions debacle and how they have or have NOT helped the ambulance service staff as a whole. let alone the emt/practitioner/technician/student Para or whatever we are known as now appears to be an inevitable government driven unchangeable unstoppable afc banding and money saving conclusion. The whole afc appears to have been organised by a finance department with help from an oxford dictionary scholar. Clearly the main afc union involved is and has been unable to do anything. Going by a letter I received today saying the emt pay band will remain unchanged following the final formal review. What a fucking joke. No disrespect to any union individual but what has happened here. Something has to be done. Do we not have access to the press or a decent solicitor? Until any one of the unions decide to ONLY support ambulance staff and all ambulance staff join ONLY one union, then we are all fucked. That includes all current differing union staff who are unfortunately wasting there time, this in itself is a disaster for them and us. The letter I received today proves this sorry full point. Dont get me wrong, I admire anyone who joins a union to give up there time to help others but am bewildered as to why these helpful people bothered to get involved with anything other then an ambulance staff only union. When I joined the ambo service I was pushed into joining unison and advised to never speak of or to any other union. That tells you something. Fuckit cant be bothered; this subject is too much for me, thats it.
crap shifter	Re: Unions done for you?	#16	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 703 (08/12/07 22:08:24) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The above post was a party political broadcast from the anti trade union lobby known as the ASU who have now become the GMB except of course in London where they have become the T&G who are in the process of becoming UNITE. Confused? Yep so are they! Just because I shift crap all day doesn't mean I have to listen to it as well.
Chaos	Re: Unions done for you?	#17	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 433 (09/12/07 17:52:16) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Crap Shifter - Crap Speaker, more like. Where was ASU mentioned in this guy's post?? Get over it, you fucking idiot!! In another thread about pensions, you're totally dismissive of the question, as if it's somehow my fault that I knew nothing of the changes - well - sorry - if I've never been told, then how the fuck am I suppose to know?? And now I ask about A4C - come on, tell me what UNISON have actually done for techs?? Tell me how it's 'fair'. Tell me why it'll take me 7 years to earn the same money as someone who's doing the same job as me in the same area who happens to have done 6 months more service than me? Tell me why a tech in a couple of other parts of the UK are in the same band as paras, whilst having less skills and less acountability? Tell me why those techs with the same experience and skills as me, but happen to live somewhere else are getting paid 5k more than me? Tell me why techs in certain places can get through the pay band twice as quickly as I can? Tell me why a Para earns more points for his/her driving 'skills' than me (and that's WITHOUT additional car training) on the JEQ, hence atificially altering the outcome? Why did all the ambo staff in Scotland, Wales and Ireland get ALL the pay rise backdated so it was a the full 2.5%, and those in England didn't? Tell me why all the ambo staff in the UK got such a shit pay rise in the first place so that a few people in a completely different part of the NHS could get a backhander to shut them up? Tell me why no ambo staff actually voted to accept anything, yet Unison STILL accepted on their behalf? Tell me who actually GAINS from being in Unison?? Tell me how Unison actually think they've 'REPRESENTED' or 'GOT THE BEST DEAL FOR' ambo staff by agreeing to any of the stuff I've mentioned above.......... As I said earlier (if you had the wisdom to read rather than just spout SHITE, you would have seen it - go on - try it now). I'm not saying ANY other union would have done any better, but I'm a Unison member, so I have to aim my comments at MY union - the one that supposedly has agreed to all these things in my name. Thing is - I seem to be dipping out all the fucking time, so I feel I have the right to ask why - after all, it's my money that's being wasted!!
crap shifter	Re: Unions done for you?	#18	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 703 (09/12/07 20:19:57) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Obviously hit a raw nerve there Chaos. I was responding to this comment *Quote:* ONLY support ambulance staff and all ambulance staff join ONLY one union Which sounded like yet another bit of ASU propoganda. All your other questions have been answered before and frankly I can't be bothered. Just because I shift crap all day doesn't mean I have to listen to it as well.
Chaos	Re: Unions done for you?	#19	[-]
Granny Fiddler Posts: 433 (10/12/07 19:31:39) Granny Fiddler Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	*Quote:* All your other questions have been answered before and frankly I can't be bothered. Have they?? Well - once again, that's comes as news to me. But who am I?? I'm only one of the idiots who continues to pay his subs each month, so don't really need to be informed of all the things that are going on......... You 'not being bothered' pretty much why most people on here think unions (especially Unison, if you are representitive of them) are a waste of fucking oxygen......... As long as you're OK, eh?? Prick!
Unonymous Aser	Re: Unions done for you?	#20	[-]
Off Sick With An LA52 Posts: 191 (10/12/07 19:54:24) Working h Half PriceWit Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	anyway - back to the topic.. In NWAS the ASU are taking the firm to a tribunal court over the AfC fuck up over technician's pay banding... In which the Firm's lawyer dude tried to get it thrown out of court, to which the Judge replied No chance. A date is set for early 2008 So my union, the ASU, have sorted that out despite us all believing at one point or another they weren't actually doing anything... it was all behind the scenes stuff (not just management who have communication issues then..)

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